As is mentioned in the thread, this is a far older "problem" for BSD than this 2011 thread.
The oldest story I know about this "issue" was linked here (complete with a late 80s SNL joke):
http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/daemon.html
The page itself is now offline, but the original was around at least as far back as 1999.
(Wayback link) https://web.archive.org/web/19991012013717/http://www.monste...
Well, I went to primary school with a heavy christian tradition and would probably have felt the same.
I'm very happy that someone decided to tell me at about age 12 that perhaps it's not all literally true and some people have other ideas. Some not even involving concepts like eternal damnation, original sin, an omnipotent being that turns women into salt pillars but allows for children with bone cancer to exist, and something as undefinable as an eternal soul. This ended my suffering. We have to feel bad for the people still in that system.
I remember my wife describing the funny look she got from our "traditional" next door neighbor as she took the latest edition of the BSD journal out of the mailbox. Never went any further than that.
But if you choose to use a literal hell-themed demon as your product's logo, don't be surprised if it limits your user base.
At n=1, you could try politely asking a customer how they feel about Duke University using "Blue Devils" as the name of their athletic teams, and adopting that name back when Duke itself was still named Trinity College. Do they avoid businesses with managers who graduated from Duke's business school, or churches with ministers who graduated from Duke's divinity school? Then there are all the American military squadrons and divisions and such which have nicknamed themselves the Red Devils...
More soberly and at scale, one of the boring functions of real business managers is making sure that organization and product names, images, etc. are as inoffensive as possible to as many people as possible.
Back in the '90's, when I first saw the Beastie and Tux mascots, my reaction was "one of these OS's wants to be used on 1% of computers, and the other wants to be used on 99% of computers".
> a daemon, not the Devil.
Many years ago, I was working in some Islamic countries where getting literature through customs was very hit and miss, depending on the religious sensibilities of the inspecting agent. I actually called the FreeBSD office and explained to someone that it would make my life easier if I could get copies of their material without their devil logo. The person I talked to was completely unsympathetic. "Just explain to them that it's a daemon, not a demon."
It's such a shame, because I really like the FreeBSD/NetBSD daemon logo, the FreeBSD project had a lot of nice variations in the past for the Walnut creek CD-ROM sets [1]. The 'glass ball with horns' is far more boring, and I'm sure would still offend some people because it has horns.
[1] E.g. https://i.redd.it/ha7w5438mq031.jpg
@CppPro the logo really annoys you, doesn't it?
2 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41818595
>>1. Change the logo from a demon to something else. (no matter if it is a play on the word "deamon", it is repulsive to many of the 2.4 billion Christians that can be potential users of FreeBSD)
The strange thing is, there are lot of cathedral churches with all sorts of demonic-looking creatures on them as decorations; not to mention quite an amount of folklore in which some saint or other would overpower the lesser imps with the strength of his faith and make them do his bidding.
Resolved: WORKSFORME
Comment: cats are also horned devils but they seem to be universally accepted anyway
Instead of trying to change the mascot, why not add a little "what is this?" button next to it, which when clicked explains that it is a mascot, not some devil's worship.
Also, somehow I got the feeling that this hotel wasn't seriously going to lose business over the mascot. A 'long term guest' that is offended by something as innocent as a picture sure sounds to me like someone just trying get out of some obligation.
“It’s not the Devil, it’s a daemon.” That’s a not a conversation I would want to have.
The etymology of “daemon” in the computer sense is Maxwell’s Daemon, a thought experiment involving a mischievous demon.
Even to an above average intelligence person, that’s a lot of explaining.
Most pre-modern peoples believed in demons, and most people believe images have power.
This seems like a violation of the best practices of logo design.
Reminded me of a similar story:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120104013009/https://monster-i...
Which reminded me of Bill Hicks:
Fun fact: the Belgian national football (association football, not rugger) team is called the Red Devils and fans will go to matches painted red, wearing horns, and carrying an inflatable trident.
(2011)
Eh could be worse. My daughter’s boyfriend’s parents won’t use Apple stuff because the logo has a bite out of it.
Hilariously though they are paranoid about China and Chinese influence and go on about it all the time including Apple making stuff in China but have Huawei phones.
is there an alternative mascot people could prefer?
on a mascot rating puffy is easily the best imo... what could freebsd have?
any ideas?
hilarious
I am trying to grasp what I have just read. I may be able to understand if this is sarcasm probably
The FreeBSD Code of Conduct mentions being welcoming to people regardless of religion, but by using imagery that explicitly comes from religious depictions of evil in their logo they're blatantly being unwelcoming to a lot of religious people. Would they react differently (albeit more politely) if someone complained today, now the Code of Conduct exists, especially as 'fixing' this would require a full rebrand?
I think the hotel guest was right to complain, and in my understanding of the Bible as a Christian I would say it is appropriate to refuse to do business with someone using such images, but also the image does not have any 'power'. That is, it is potentially immoral to associate with it, but the image shouldn't be 'scary' to any Christian, it's just a picture.
The BSD logo was originally drawn by John Lassetter, who would later write and direct Toy Story and a couple of other successful movies.
https://www.jacobelder.com/2024/01/17/director-of-toy-story-...
Previous discussion:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39030991
EDIT: While the John Lassetter version became most popular he did not draw the original. Thanks to dagmx for pointing that out and the additional background info in their comment. Also there is a Wikipedia article about the BSD daemon with even more details about the history of the logo.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_Daemon