The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

by oxfeed65261on 4/29/2023, 6:24 PMwith 32 comments

by dhsysusbsjsion 4/29/2023, 7:18 PM

Great article, but unfortunately the lying is entrenched culturally. The regulator is so distrusted it can never change.

For example in Australia I’ve heard multiple cases of somebody proactively seeking counselling for help dealing with temporarily stressful situations such as divorce, then being grounded at work, and the regulator (CASA) denying medical clearances. This increases the stress.

Every time some senior person proclaims “it’s okay this time - report your illnesses”, it never is, and we go around this circle again and again. I will personally never report my medical history accurately to the regulator.

by leetrouton 4/29/2023, 7:14 PM

I briefly held a student pilots license, issued my exemption, due to kidney stones. I have suffered from depression for years and was extremely reluctant to seek treatment because I knew it would be detrimental to flying.

My primary care doctor had me try lexapro in 2018 and even though I hadn't flown in 2 years I protested but reluctantly agreed I needed to do something and it was unlikely I would ever fly as a private pilot for many factors and should go on with treatment.

I know for a fact pilots hide all kinds of medical issues. I had a doctor that worked with delta pilots and argued my case with the FAA (a formality more than anything) and he along with everyone at flight school advocated for keeping my kidney stones to myself and not disclosing it in the first place.

The system needs some work. I have first hand experience with it without my livelihood being on the line and its easy to imagine why pilots hide issues.

by oxfeed65261on 4/29/2023, 6:24 PM

Admiral Cloudberg (Kyra Dempsey) writes detailed, thoughtful analyses of airline disasters. In many cases, subsequent improvements have made a disaster type unlikely to recur. This one (the suicide/mass murder of Andreas Lubitz on Germanwings flight 9525) is an exception, and the article makes a strong case that significant changes are needed but are not being pursued. The archive is full of fascinating, riveting accounts of what happened, why, and how for many different tragedies.

by Qemon 4/29/2023, 10:35 PM

Great report! But I missed some discussion on the role workplace bullying may have contributed to mental deterioration of the pilot. At time of the crash, I remember reading some reports he was mocked by colleagues due to working as a flight attendant before becoming a pilot. IIRC they even nicknamed him "Tomato Andy", after the red uniform of flight attendants used by the company.

by RcouF1uZ4gsCon 4/29/2023, 8:56 PM

Some of the most commonly prescribed antidepression medications can in certain populations actually increase the risk of suicide.

In addition, if you look at the mass killings that have made the news, it seems that most of not all of them were on some type of antidepressant.

There may be a link that is worth exploring further, but there are some very strong interests that would be opposed.

by wly_cdgron 4/29/2023, 8:36 PM

Sounds like an ethics problem more than a regulatory system problem. The long term solution is not reducing the incentive to lie, it's better and more extensive moral education to increase personal reluctance to lie. Why is that the better solution? Because it has profound benefits that extend far beyond this specific scenario / industry.

by WalterBrighton 4/30/2023, 5:45 AM

One solution could be to provide a largish tool to open the door, and place the tool all the way aft. A hijacker would have to run a gauntlet of all the passengers to retrieve the obvious tool, passengers who know they have to stop him.

by SoftTalkeron 4/30/2023, 3:20 AM

It's impossible to eliminate all possibility of a crazy person doing massive harm. The kind of regulation that would require would be intolerable to civilized society.

Sometimes these things happen, it's almost like a random mechanical failure that takes down an airplane.

Maybe one day when we get AI good enough to fly an airplane on its own we can eliminate that. Assuming that such an AI is 100% predictable and reliable and isn't subject to psychosis or hallucinations, which may or may not be achievable.